maxamet vs s110v

$310.00. I'm still curious to see a custom knife made out of Maxamet though. This makes sense because of the lower carbide content of S90V, while the smaller carbides of S110V provides better toughness than S125V despite the similar carbide content. Model # SP-C81GPDGY2 . If you find trouble understanding the meaning of hardness or HRC, here you can find a blog post explaining it. This was not necessarily a new discovery; it was long known in austenitic stainless steels that high Mo improved “pitting resistance,” and steels intended for seawater applications typically need high Mo. The primary difference is out-of-this-world edge retention at the cost of a minimal reduction in toughness. P'Kal™ G-10 Red Trainer. And with some users reporting difficulty in deburring S110V (usually means high retained austenite), I’m not sure I would actually recommend heat treating S110V from 2150°F despite the apparent superior hardness-toughness balance. In an alloy, Tungsten contributes to the harden-ability, and with this much Tungsten it’s no surprise that Spyderco hardened Maxamet up to 67-68 RC. CPM-S110V. There was a somewhat surprising and little discussed composition change with S110V, for mostly unknown reasons (though probably related to manufacturing). The 0888MAX has an overall length of 9.125″, a 3.75″ blade, a weight of 7.56 ounces, and is made in the USA. The Maxamet steel in considered as a “Super Steel”, So it’s a High-end Alloy steel, with an uncommon chemical composition, but I can say that the closest one to it is the CPM S110V(even if it’s stainless steel), in exception of wear resistance; the Maxamet is a great match for the S110v in edge retention, hardness, wear-resistance and price range which is between 100-200 Usd. I prefer the S35vn blah on the LW scales. Here is the datasheet. All of the following experiments were performed on the later version of S110V, as that is all that is available to purchase. Very interesting article. Sharpness: Sharpening Maxamet steel, unfortunately, will be a hard task, it’s very hard steel, so sharpening won’t be easy, also for grinding if you’re a knife maker you won’t enjoy grinding Maxamet steel. My guess is few heats of the original composition were ever produced, so experiments on that version are mostly academic at this point. Like many other very high wear resistance stainless steels (S90V, M398) it was developed for plastic injection applications which necessitate a combination of high wear resistance and high corrosion resistance. The cobalt content was increased from 2 to 2.5%, likely based on updated estimates of how much austenite stabilization is necessary after the changes to Nb, Cr, and Mo. the results says that the retained austenite was only 7% . Manufacturing Technology - MM. Understand that a keen edge requires a dimension of around 100nm (1/10 of a micron) and the vanadium-rich carbides in Maxamet, or S110V, or even the chromium carbides in ZDP189 are 1-2 microns in size. Spyderco Para Military 2 Knife. I have two Spydercos in S110 and a Benchmade in S90. Spyderco Paramilitary 2 vs Benchmade Griptilian : It’s no secret the Griptilian is one of my favorites but overall the PM2 is simply a better knife. For reference, steels like S110V and ZDP 189 are taken up to the low 60s (maybe as high as 65 for ZDP-189). The standard blade steel of the Native 5 is CPM S30V stainless steel, but Spyderco has expanded that offering with additions like super high-grade CPM-S110V and Maxamet steels. Die Zähigkeit ist angemessen hoch, jedoch auf Kosten der Korrosionsbeständigkeit (nicht rostfrei). $160.00. (This is not heat-related). However, S90V and the modified S110V (labeled 11V) have 11.5% Cr in solution while S110V (9Nb-3.5Nb) has 12.3% Cr in solution, which would provide better corrosion resistance. Spyderco Military Left Hand Black G10 Plain Edge Satin C36GPLE . If you are unfamiliar with the Para Military 2, this will help you get a better understanding of one of the most popular knife designs in the past 10 years. Thanks to Aaron @ Gough Custom, Aaron McVay, Mark Scott, Jeffrey St. Claire, Grant Seim III, and saiiiiiii1 for becoming Knife Steel Nerds Patreon supporters! This is not scientific, bit here goes. Native® 5 G-10 Black. Elmax. With S110 you have to battle burrs just like S30. S110V and S90V are my favorites in the very high edge retention stainless steel category, depending on the level of corrosion resistance that is necessary for the application. For example, S90V edge retention is closer to M398 when at the same hardness. It does offer the best sharpenability of the very high edge retention stainless steels because of less vanadium carbide, however, and it also has very good corrosion resistance. Although Maxamet isn't stainless, but at the same time Maxamet is tougher compared to Crucible CPM S110V steel, which can result in better edge holding ability, and cutting performance with the right geometry and heat treatment. 1 year ago. According to the chemical composition and the HRC of the Maxamet steel, it offers the following features: Edge Retention: With a hardness above 65HRC, due to the high amount of Tungsten, Vanadium, and Carbon, the Maxamet steel knife has the best edge retention. $145.00. But I still don’t know for sure why S110V wasn’t as good as S90V in testing. Cru-Wear but the hardness is limited to only ~ 35 HRc . an example is an old grade called vasco MA the matrix of M2 steel . So the amount of Ni and Mn needs to be kept to relatively low levels so that a good combination of hardness and corrosion resistance can be obtained. The pocket clip, like all PM2 and Para3 clips is just terrible. Even with that handicap, it’s a great knife. That method has its own issues such as many carbides clumping together, in general PM steels have a more uniform microstructure. The obvious answer is Yes, its prey good for knives, especially if you’re looking for a knife with excellent edge retention and very high wear resistance, Maxamet is a “Super steel” for your knife, but it’s not a stainless steel, it has only 4% of chromium in it, so it’s not so great concerning corrosion resistance. There are other elements that can stabilize austenite as well, notably carbon, nickel, and manganese, though those elements also increase retained austenite. Checkout Deals of the Day on Amazon, What is the hardness(HRC) of Maxamet steel, Best scout carry knife with horizontal Sheath. But for simple slicing tasks, this knife will go on for a seriously long time. The results of these … 1 year ago. Native® 5 Salt® $186.00. So more heat treatments would have to be tested to see if greater toughness at lower hardness could be achieved. Spyderco Para 3 Dark Gray G-10 - Maxamet Blade. Von Gesichtsrasur war ja ausdrücklich nicht die Rede. Maxamet ist der neueste Pulverstahl von Carpenter (auch bekannt als CarTech). See more hardness measurements of S90V in this article. And niobium carbide contains very little chromium. I'm still curious to see a custom knife made out of Maxamet though. Both are ridiculously difficult to sharpen. The reasoning and test results seem totally convincing, but I can imagine companies preferring to stick with the steel makers reccomended heat treatments. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. The Mule Team was set up with identical knife blade blank designs in different steels in an attempt to compare apples to apples when testing the knives. Machinability: Maxamet steel is a great steel for machinability thanks to Sulfur(If you’re interested in Maxamet for a machine, the company offers an improved “Sulfur” Maxamet for machinability with 0.23% of sulfur). Pacific Salt™ 2. The Maxamet steel in considered as a “Super Steel”, So it’s a High-end Alloy steel, with an uncommon chemical composition, but I can say that the closest one to it is the CPM S110V(even if it’s stainless steel), in exception of wear resistance; the Maxamet is a great match for the S110v in edge retention, hardness, wear-resistance and price range which is between 100-200 Usd. I tested S45VN in my 1% saltwater spray corrosion test. All of the steels that you mention are great knife steels, and they all are super steels, they just are not quite a super as Maxamet. It's cool to carry a knife made from Maxamet, M390, or CPM-S110V. They have the same blade grinds, and they are heat treated and processed by the same manufacturer, of course. ... S110V. Aber persönliche Erfahrungen und eine Sammlung detaillierter Informationen zu S110V. $205.00. Eine extreme Legierung mit unglaublichen Härtewerten und einer atemberaubenden Schnitthaltigkeit. The high chromium affects the amount of vanadium carbide that is formed, and the high vanadium actually promotes the formation of chromium carbide, dropping corrosion resistance and toughness. In older versions of ThermoCalc it showed that S110V with 2% Co would be fine, which Crucible would have been using at the time, but newer versions show a small amount of ferrite at 2150°F, around 4%. MAXAMET and S110V both share a low toughness, Maxamet offers better edge retention while the S110V offers better Corrosion resistance. If the problem of adding Niobium is just clogging atomization why they didn’t just use larger nozzles ? Manufacturing Technology - MM. Maxamet’s distinguishing metallurgical characteristic is the high carbon content (2.15%) and the inclusion of 10% Tungsten. Although Maxamet isn't stainless, but at the same time Maxamet is tougher compared to Crucible CPM S110V steel, which can result in better edge holding ability, and cutting performance with the right geometry and heat treatment. This improvement in corrosion resistance was expected based on the modifications with Nb and Mo that were described earlier. Below I have plotted the steel also in relation to other stainless steels along with a hardness-toughness trendline from S60V. S110V has a finer carbide structure than either S90V or S125V. As a rule, the harder the steel, the easier it breaks, so the Maxamet steel is very hard steel that can break very fast, but it’s tough enough to handle some beating, damaging work. WTS--Spyderco Mule blades (MAXAMET, K390, S110V, CTS-XHP and Cobalt Special) Prices reduced . Toughness: Due to his high hardness, it has low toughness. For example, S30V had increased Mo over the earlier S90V/S60V for improved corrosion resistance, and that trend continued thereafter with other Crucible products. That sounds low to me though I haven’t used JMatPro in the past to predict retained austenite. S110V and M390/20CV/204P do have higher Cr in solution than S45VN. I didn’t know how realistic is Jmatpro but I’m sure that 0.5% carbon should secure 55-60 HRc hardess . So if you intend to use in humid environment, you better take care of your knife, other than that it’s a great steel of an EDC knife. I have seen almost no discussion of the change in composition, and I think most people are unaware that it ever changed. Read all 5 Reviews » Paramilitary 2 Series. I find the same edge retention results as Larrin, the S90V edge retention is better than the S110V. I have 3 spyderco Native 5’s in S110V, S90V and in Maxamet. I have 3 spyderco Native 5’s in S110V, S90V and in Maxamet. Also, the chromium “in solution” to contribute to corrosion resistance was actually improved in S90V relative to the earlier S60V by careful control over the carbon and vanadium content, despite the bulk chromium being lower. The Mule Team was set up with identical knife blade blank designs in different steels in an attempt to compare apples to apples when testing the knives. Regardless, the development of S30V and S125V meant that Crucible metallurgists were well aware that Mo could improve corrosion resistance with the same level of chromium. CPM-S110V. To look at this difference I used ThermoCalc to estimate the amount of carbon, chromium, and molybdenum in solution with S90V, the patent version of S110V (2.8C-14Cr-9V-3.5Mo-3.5Nb-2Co), and then a modified version of S110V which has 11% V instead of 9%V-3.5%Nb (2.8C-14Cr-11V-3.5Mo-2Co). Para Military™ 2 G-10 Digital Camo. Maxamet is a powder steel from Carpenter, an American steel company. $216.00. I haven’t performed a full range of heat treatment experiments on S110V, but comparisons with S90V show the two heat treating relatively similarly. $295.00. However, more carbon means more carbides which reduces corrosion resistance and toughness, as described in this article. Para™ 3 G-10 Dark Gray Maxamet. I used Jmatpro software to calculate a steel with the same compostion of 316 stainless steel : 18%Cr + 2%Mo but with replacement of nickel with only 5% cobalt and 0.5% carbon . S90V and S110V both offer superior carbide structure and toughness when compared with M398. $250.00. You can see the difference in the micrographs below. Para™ 3 G-10 Black/Black Blade. As mentioned in the article deburring is mostly an effect of retained austenite, and the recommended heat treatment for the steel isn’t necessarily the best for avoiding it. However, the patent for S110V specifically calls out 154CM as a basis of design with its 14Cr-4Mo, providing good corrosion resistance with less Cr, and that can be seen in the initial version of S110V with 14Cr-3.5Mo. I did a large number of edge retention experiments which were summarized in this article, and I also added M398 which was discussed here. I’m eventually going to stop plugging my book Knife Engineering in every new article, but that day is not today. If you ever wanted to own or buy a knife with excellent edge retention, I m sure someone already recommended the Maxamet steel as steel for your knife, and if you’re reading this blog post, it means you wish to know more about it. I previously wrote about cobalt additions in this article about VG10. The Mo content of M390 is lower, however, so it is difficult to predict how things balance out when comparing higher Cr vs higher Mo. It could be that Crucible decided that the niobium was too close to the danger zone. Furthermore, there is some chromium present in vanadium carbide, further reducing corrosion resistance. $160.00. $250.00. 154CM, dating back to around 1959, had 4% Mo though the Mo addition was to maintain hardness at higher temperatures in bearing applications, not necessarily improved corrosion resistance. With increased Cr in solution, but decreased Mo, it is not clear which version would have superior corrosion resistance. You’ll find Maxamet on some Spyderco offerings like the Native 5 and Manix 2. this should be called “super steel” . There is another aspect of S110V vs S90V that I would like to mention. The test produces a number for each steel of rope cuts made, so steels can be placed in a hierarchy where the interested person can get a decent idea of where one steel might sit against another. Maxamet ist der neueste Pulverstahl von Carpenter (auch bekannt als CarTech). There is hardenable stainless steels with just 0.03% carbon . The test produces a number for each steel of rope cuts made, so steels can be placed in a hierarchy where the interested person can get a decent idea of where one steel might sit against another. $305.00. The changes were likely made to improve “manufacturability,” such as issues with gas atomization, forging, or annealing of the steel. $305.00. However, I have some speculation about why the composition was changed. S90V offers somewhat better toughness and edge retention making it more balanced for applications that need only medium corrosion resistance. Wear Resistance: the wear resistance is excellent, due to the Tungsten, Vanadium, and Carbon, the Maxamet offers a great wear resistance. The Griptilian is comfortable but it feels totally different in your hands versus the PM2. Maxamet is the latest powder steel from Carpenter (aka CarTech). I have 2 spydercos in 110 and maxamet as well, and they have crisp edges as well. All of this in combination with the powder metallurgy technology gives S90V a relatively fine microstructure for good toughness along with high wear resistance from the high vanadium content. there is no doubt that if all of these 10% carbides are vanadium or niobium carbides instead of mostly M6C carbides which are much softer the hardness will be increased slightly , while the edge resistance will be increased greatly and still retaining the same toughness . Get a free guide on Knife Sharpening to find out how you can achieve more. Is it good for knives? The primary difference is out-of-this-world edge retention at the cost of a minimal reduction in toughness. But, If you’re a Diver, Hunter, Kitchen Chef, or you use your knife in humid places, and you’re looking for premium steel, I wouldn’t recommend the Maxamet I would instead go for the S110V stainless steel. Elmax. S110V is essentially S90V with more C, Cr, Co, Mo, and Nb, and it is difficult to think of scenarios where adding more of those elements would lead to reduced edge retention. The knife looks in fine condition all over with an even grind on both sides of the blade. As you can notice, it has only 4.75% of Chromium, which means its not stainless steel, and it’s very high in Vanadium and Tungsten, which makes a tough alloy with excellent wear resistance. According to Zknives, ZT had trouble grinding the Maxamet blades after heat treat, and experienced issues with warping if they ground the blades before heat treat. I have a spreadsheet of all of the heat treatments I have done in the past along with ThermoCalc estimates of elements in solution. If you’re interested in the Maxamet steel for your knife, and still have doubts, I would like to assure you that’s it’s a great steel for your knife, depending on your usage, its has an exceptional edge retention and excellent wear resistance, but it’s low on corrosion resistance, so if you’re an EDC user (you like to have a tactical knife on you, for opening boxes and canes or whatever your bare hands can’t handle) it’s a great knife for you! It’s high-speed tool steel made by @CarpenterTechnology. However, niobium is a “stronger” carbide former than vanadium, meaning it can form niobium carbide even in the presence of high amounts of chromium. You’ll pay for it though, at roughly 1.5x the price. These two factors mean that using niobium instead of vanadium can lead to a steel with high wear resistance from hard niobium carbides, while having high corrosion resistance because there is little interaction between chromium and niobium, leaving the chromium alone to contribute to corrosion resistance. S110V is a very interesting steel because of the innovations that went into its development, including a niobium addition for improved carbide structure and corrosion resistance, and cobalt addition to ensure it could be heat treated despite the excellent corrosion resistance. So sharpening these knives to a keen edge with ceramic involves crushing those carbides (near the apex) into “nano-dust” and burnishing the matrix around them. Well, it’s largely still up for debate but from my experience Maxamet matches S110V in edge retention but falls short on corrosion resistance (it’s not stainless). That aside, the Manix is … As mentioned in the niobium section, there are limits to niobium alloying with typical powder metallurgy steel production. Es hatte geheißen, daß Armhaare nicht denkbar seien. the effect of cobalt on raising martensite start temperature inspires me an idea . So being conservative we would say that S90V is tougher than S110V which has higher toughness than S125V. CPM-S110V exhibits many of the same qualities as S90V. The s110v blade of this Manix 2 blurple is very very sharp so be careful with it. The patent for S110V and the original datasheet released in September 2008 (I archived it here) is the original composition labeled as “patent” in the composition table. All PM2s are great at EDC tasks. The Manix 2 LW is available at most retailers for around $80.00. In an attempt to clear out some of my unused knives, I’m putting up some of my Spyderco Mule Team blades. The pocket clip, like all PM2 and Para3 clips is just terrible. Replacing nickel with cobalt in 316 would not make it hardenable has it would still need significant amounts of carbon to form hard martensite. Native® 5 FRN Dark Blue CPM S110V. S110V is designed to be heat treated between 2050 and 2150°F so the steel would need to be austenitized in that range. The reduction in Nb may have led to the other changes in the steel. If you’re looking for an EDC knife with a Maxamet Steel, the  NATIVE 5 is your choice. My Native 5 in Maxamet is the only one of my 3 Native 5’s that I have had Rockwell tested and it came in at 67 HRC. It makes a good lock up and closing sound to the blade. Here is the datasheet. $160.00. Its an extreme alloy with insane hardness and tremendous edge retention while still retaining a reasonable amount of toughness but at the expense of corrosion resistance (it’s not stainless). So forming austenite at high temperature is the first required step for the final heat treatment of a knife. I don’t know the cause but I’m convinced it’s a real effect. However, what is surprising is that it did worse than S90V. I have 3 spyderco Native 5’s in S110V, S90V and in Maxamet. ... S110V. Perhaps they identified high Mo as an issue as well, such as difficulty in annealing or excessive hardenability leading to cracking during cooling after forging. $145.00. You can see that S90V and S110V are along a similar trendline (only the 2150 condition of S110V is shown). Para Military™ 2 Left Hand G-10 Black . Sharpening them all on diamond resin stones, and stropping with diamond paste on leather ends in a hair whittling edge on all 3 knives (including the S110V). However, as explained above with S90V, balancing vanadium and chromium is challenging to obtain a high combination of wear resistance and corrosion resistance. The reduction in Mo from the original version (3.5%) to the final version (2.25%) likely means that these values are no longer accurate. If you’re worried about the steel (my experience seems to be an outlier), Spyderco also offers the Manix 2LW in CPM-S110V for around $35 more. But not S110. Spyderco Military Left Hand Black G10 Plain Edge Satin C36GPLE . Both are capable of very high levels of hardness. Instead, the inventors of S110V used cobalt, which is an austenite stabilizer at high temperatures but does not increase retained austenite when quenching to martensite, unlike Ni and Mn. Making high corrosion resistance steels with high chromium in solution also leads to more retained austenite, as explained in this article on Vanax steel. Micro Melt Maxamet Alloy can be supplied as steel plate/ sheet, round steel bar, steel tube/pipe, steel stripe, steel billet, steel ingot, steel wire rods. This is the only example of using cobalt for this purpose in a stainless tool steel that I am aware of, and is one of the biggest innovations of S110V in my opinion. Get Up To 95% Off Today! Model # SP-C81GPDGY2 . I can get the S90 much sharper than the S110. Native® 5 G-10 Dark Blue CPM S110V. Manufacturing Technology - MM. Although Maxamet isn't stainless, but at the same time Maxamet is tougher compared to Crucible CPM S110V steel, which can result in better edge holding ability, and cutting performance with the right geometry and heat treatment. Und das ist definitiv falsch. Maybe 0.4% if the effect of cobalt is linear to increase Ms. Also be careful that all of that is in solution at the austenitizing temperature you calculated for. This was confirmed in tests reported in the patent, where a cobalt free version had some ferrite present after heat treatment, and only reached about 54 Rc. S90V was patented around 1996, the major innovation over previous steels was a reduction in Cr down to 14% which led to the formation of more vanadium carbide for a given amount of vanadium. If you frequently use your knife to slice up cardboard, there may not be a better steel than CPM-S110V. $217.00. Matching 316 corrosion resistance while also reaching 60+ Rc would be very difficult even with cobalt. Where a steel like S30V really shines is in sharpening. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Para Military™ 2 G-10 Dark Gray Maxamet. I would estimate more like 0.3% carbon would be the limit with that much chromium. $217.00. electroslag, forged ring/ … Required fields are marked *. According to @Cartech, the Maxamet has a maximum hardness of 70HRC. I have the Maxamet LW version, the pink S30v, the Satin blade natural G10 with M4, and the original (discontinued) G10 with liners and S35vn. In Stock . Because Crucible already had steels S90V and S125V prior to S110V we have to discuss briefly the history of those steels. $230.00 . So, how does Maxamet compare against CPM-S110V? S110V is a powder metallurgy stainless tool steel with very high wear resistance.

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